Cultic Studies Journal, Vol. 6, No. 2, 1989, Page 73
Some deprogrammers wait to bring in ex-members, but Curt and Sandy bring them in as
soon as possible, because only the ex-member can “spot the party rap right away. We try to
bring in an ex-member right away (we usually use] two deprogrammers and one ex-
member [right from the start” Some deprogrammers hold off on the ex-member, figuring
that the cultist will immediately discount the ex-member because he “saw the truth” and left
anyway (making him even more evil). Sandy stated that he had not found that to be the
case. Bringing in Dara toward the end of the deprogramming, however, is by plan. Ken has
seen women in a very circumscribed way these past four years, and Dara would be a strong
contradiction of that view. Confronting Ken with a woman like Dara too early might have
threatened him or made him defensive.
Ken awakens. At this point Ken awakened, and he was greeted happily by Sandy as he
opened the glass door and came out onto the pool's patio. At precisely the same time, Greg
came out poolside. Being outside in the warm, blustery weather, I had not heard him arrive.
Sandy, Greg and Ken made themselves comfortable on the pool furniture, and then all three
began discussing Lifton, picking up where they had left off the night before. As Sandy read
from Lifton, he asked Ken to come up with ISKCON examples to illustrate what Lifton wrote.
As a result, the conversation remained at least 50-50.
Fifth Day: Afternoon and Evening
Dara arrives. At around 12:30 p.m., Dara Coy arrived. Dara introduced herself and
launched right into a series of questions for Ken. She began detailing her criticisms of
ISKCON theology. The deprogramming had taken some turns toward the less serious
yesterday. Dara was a fresh deprogrammer and she seemed anxious to do her job. Ken,
however, had not yet “agreed” to get serious again, and so he responded to some of Dara‟s
questions with kidding and jokes. At one point, he replied to a question with “Ah, there's a
little bit of a demon in me.” Sandy, perhaps taking his cues from Dara, confronted Ken
without his typical joking style on how subtle the Krishna brainwashing had been, how all-
pervasive. It even pervaded Ken's jokes. Sandy caustically noted to Ken that he was
continuing to use Krishna terminology, even in his anti-Krishna jokes.
Ken, while briefly acknowledging Sandy's criticism, talked instead about how he would at
times complain to his guru that he felt he was being robbed of his individuality. His guru
would respond by admonishing him and demanding repentance. Although he still
maintained a critical attitude toward ISKCON, with Dara Ken often seemed to be defending
Krishna ideology, and I wondered if Ken was “backsliding” (to use the deprogrammers'
term) once again. At one point Ken again referred to the human body as “consisting of
blood, pus, bile, and stool,” something he had not done for the past three days. Although he
quickly added “[I know there is more to the body than that,” it was clear from Dara and
Sandy's reaction that they were uncertain whether or not Ken still literally believed the
ISKCON view of the human body. Soon after this comment Ken again referred to women as
being more “lusty” than men, another ISKCON “throwback.”
Dara asked Ken about the nature of “pure devotional service” -if even ISKCON admits that
it is very rarely attained, then just how attainable is it? And exactly what is it? This seemed
related to Lifton's concept of the “demand for purity” in totalistic systems. In addition, if the
gurus are supposed to have “pure devotional service,” then how do we explain the excesses
and amoral behavior of Jayatirtha or Kirtanananda? Ken noted that, according to ISKCON,
once you become a pure devotee, then all your actions transcend the usual rules and
regulations. Dara countered. “then how do you explain Jayatirtha being kicked out” of
ISKCON? Ken agreed with Dara's point. He went on to talk about how he sometimes “was
waiting and waiting” and hoping “that Vishnupada would fall down so that I could justifiably
leave the movement.” Ken reminded the deprogrammers of his tape in which Vishnupada
defends Jayatirtha, putting the guilt for Jayatirtha's fall on the devotees. The three
Some deprogrammers wait to bring in ex-members, but Curt and Sandy bring them in as
soon as possible, because only the ex-member can “spot the party rap right away. We try to
bring in an ex-member right away (we usually use] two deprogrammers and one ex-
member [right from the start” Some deprogrammers hold off on the ex-member, figuring
that the cultist will immediately discount the ex-member because he “saw the truth” and left
anyway (making him even more evil). Sandy stated that he had not found that to be the
case. Bringing in Dara toward the end of the deprogramming, however, is by plan. Ken has
seen women in a very circumscribed way these past four years, and Dara would be a strong
contradiction of that view. Confronting Ken with a woman like Dara too early might have
threatened him or made him defensive.
Ken awakens. At this point Ken awakened, and he was greeted happily by Sandy as he
opened the glass door and came out onto the pool's patio. At precisely the same time, Greg
came out poolside. Being outside in the warm, blustery weather, I had not heard him arrive.
Sandy, Greg and Ken made themselves comfortable on the pool furniture, and then all three
began discussing Lifton, picking up where they had left off the night before. As Sandy read
from Lifton, he asked Ken to come up with ISKCON examples to illustrate what Lifton wrote.
As a result, the conversation remained at least 50-50.
Fifth Day: Afternoon and Evening
Dara arrives. At around 12:30 p.m., Dara Coy arrived. Dara introduced herself and
launched right into a series of questions for Ken. She began detailing her criticisms of
ISKCON theology. The deprogramming had taken some turns toward the less serious
yesterday. Dara was a fresh deprogrammer and she seemed anxious to do her job. Ken,
however, had not yet “agreed” to get serious again, and so he responded to some of Dara‟s
questions with kidding and jokes. At one point, he replied to a question with “Ah, there's a
little bit of a demon in me.” Sandy, perhaps taking his cues from Dara, confronted Ken
without his typical joking style on how subtle the Krishna brainwashing had been, how all-
pervasive. It even pervaded Ken's jokes. Sandy caustically noted to Ken that he was
continuing to use Krishna terminology, even in his anti-Krishna jokes.
Ken, while briefly acknowledging Sandy's criticism, talked instead about how he would at
times complain to his guru that he felt he was being robbed of his individuality. His guru
would respond by admonishing him and demanding repentance. Although he still
maintained a critical attitude toward ISKCON, with Dara Ken often seemed to be defending
Krishna ideology, and I wondered if Ken was “backsliding” (to use the deprogrammers'
term) once again. At one point Ken again referred to the human body as “consisting of
blood, pus, bile, and stool,” something he had not done for the past three days. Although he
quickly added “[I know there is more to the body than that,” it was clear from Dara and
Sandy's reaction that they were uncertain whether or not Ken still literally believed the
ISKCON view of the human body. Soon after this comment Ken again referred to women as
being more “lusty” than men, another ISKCON “throwback.”
Dara asked Ken about the nature of “pure devotional service” -if even ISKCON admits that
it is very rarely attained, then just how attainable is it? And exactly what is it? This seemed
related to Lifton's concept of the “demand for purity” in totalistic systems. In addition, if the
gurus are supposed to have “pure devotional service,” then how do we explain the excesses
and amoral behavior of Jayatirtha or Kirtanananda? Ken noted that, according to ISKCON,
once you become a pure devotee, then all your actions transcend the usual rules and
regulations. Dara countered. “then how do you explain Jayatirtha being kicked out” of
ISKCON? Ken agreed with Dara's point. He went on to talk about how he sometimes “was
waiting and waiting” and hoping “that Vishnupada would fall down so that I could justifiably
leave the movement.” Ken reminded the deprogrammers of his tape in which Vishnupada
defends Jayatirtha, putting the guilt for Jayatirtha's fall on the devotees. The three
