Cultic Studies Journal, Vol. 6, No. 2, 1989, Page 62
Family relationships. All of a sudden, Curt stopped Ken's train of thought. He asked Ken
what all this information and what his new thoughts told him about the philosophy. He
seemed to be trying to catch Ken off guard, to “test” him somehow. Ken responded, “It
sucks.” Curt nodded his head and following through asked. “What are the biggest questions
[about the philosophy) you have, or want to discuss?” Ken replied by stating his desire to
know more about how the philosophy affected the child-rearing and the family system.
Right now, he noted, he didn't have much of an opinion on this topic. Curt asked him what
he thought he was deprived of while in ISKCON. Ken quickly listed his primary deprivations:
no heterosexual relationships, privacy, or independence. Sandy, recalling a question Ken
had asked the day before, contrasted this with military service, which does allow the above.
Ken then pointed out that the total subservience, lack of self- expression, and denigration of
the Self were what he disliked most about ISKCON. At this point Curt asked Ken what were
the things he missed most from his father. As Ken looked at him with surprise, Curt
explained that Ken's mother had previously revealed that Mr. Butler was extremely critical
of Ken. Still surprised, Ken admitted this to be true. The conversation grew very subdued,
and very serious. Ken noted with obvious disagreement that his father did not perceive
himself to be very critical. Curt: “Yes, and there are many devotees and gurus who are very
sincere” but that doesn't help with the effect it has on the individual receiving the “good
intentions” of sincere people. “What matters is how you receive it.” At first, I thought Curt
was merely associating Ken's relationship with his guru to that with his father for dramatic
effect and the hope that this critique would be emotionally “imprinted” on Ken.
I was wrong. Curt asked Ken to consider what kind of damaging effect all this criticism may
have had on him as a child. The underlying suggestion now seemed to be that Ken consider
how his relationship with his father might have contributed to his vulnerability to a highly
patriarchal, Eastern cult. Intent listening gave way to sudden admission: “I had a lousy
childhood.” I was impressed by the lack of embarrassment in Ken's voice Curt‟s timing
seemed to be nearly perfect.
Curt revealed a little more of himself in return. “I had a drug problem and there was a
reason behind that. I had an OK childhood, but from age 14 on, I was a mess.” He noted
hopefully that his long history of trouble did not prevent him from changing. Remembering
Ken's previous question regarding child-rearing in ISKCON, Curt returned to the guru kula
(group childcare and elementary education) system, noting how negatively all that criticism
would affect the children.
Curt and Ken continued to discuss the formation of low self-esteem in children, and how a
highly critical and denigrating environment creates poor self-esteem. Ken noted how, as a
devotee, he envied Krishna children for being able to “get on a spiritual plane so early” in
life. Ken seemed agitated here: he talked in a low-key voice, and he looked very absorbed
and attentive yet “on edge.” I wondered if memories of his own background and unhappy
childhood were affecting him. Ken veered the conversation away from this topic and back to
some of his humorous experiences with other devotees and gurus. Curt responded to Ken's
hesitancy (resistance?), and brought the conversation back to child-raising. Ken asked him
to estimate how much love, support and attention a child needs. Curt responded, “Just think
of how much you need and double it.”
Ken's interest in ISKCON child-rearing practices seemed to remind Curt of his videotape on
guru kulas (an investigative report from Texas). He retrieved the videotape from a suitcase,
but before playing the tape, he warned Ken about “floating.” “Now this may have some bit
of an adverse effect on you watching this. What I mean by that is, a lot of times when
somebody is at this stage of a deprogramming, seeing the devotees, hearing the chanting...
may induce what is commonly referred to as a floating state. If that happens, don't worry
about it, we can talk about it.” As he set up the tape, Curt described the rationale behind
the guru kulas, in the context of how the Krishnas manipulate people: They take an the
Family relationships. All of a sudden, Curt stopped Ken's train of thought. He asked Ken
what all this information and what his new thoughts told him about the philosophy. He
seemed to be trying to catch Ken off guard, to “test” him somehow. Ken responded, “It
sucks.” Curt nodded his head and following through asked. “What are the biggest questions
[about the philosophy) you have, or want to discuss?” Ken replied by stating his desire to
know more about how the philosophy affected the child-rearing and the family system.
Right now, he noted, he didn't have much of an opinion on this topic. Curt asked him what
he thought he was deprived of while in ISKCON. Ken quickly listed his primary deprivations:
no heterosexual relationships, privacy, or independence. Sandy, recalling a question Ken
had asked the day before, contrasted this with military service, which does allow the above.
Ken then pointed out that the total subservience, lack of self- expression, and denigration of
the Self were what he disliked most about ISKCON. At this point Curt asked Ken what were
the things he missed most from his father. As Ken looked at him with surprise, Curt
explained that Ken's mother had previously revealed that Mr. Butler was extremely critical
of Ken. Still surprised, Ken admitted this to be true. The conversation grew very subdued,
and very serious. Ken noted with obvious disagreement that his father did not perceive
himself to be very critical. Curt: “Yes, and there are many devotees and gurus who are very
sincere” but that doesn't help with the effect it has on the individual receiving the “good
intentions” of sincere people. “What matters is how you receive it.” At first, I thought Curt
was merely associating Ken's relationship with his guru to that with his father for dramatic
effect and the hope that this critique would be emotionally “imprinted” on Ken.
I was wrong. Curt asked Ken to consider what kind of damaging effect all this criticism may
have had on him as a child. The underlying suggestion now seemed to be that Ken consider
how his relationship with his father might have contributed to his vulnerability to a highly
patriarchal, Eastern cult. Intent listening gave way to sudden admission: “I had a lousy
childhood.” I was impressed by the lack of embarrassment in Ken's voice Curt‟s timing
seemed to be nearly perfect.
Curt revealed a little more of himself in return. “I had a drug problem and there was a
reason behind that. I had an OK childhood, but from age 14 on, I was a mess.” He noted
hopefully that his long history of trouble did not prevent him from changing. Remembering
Ken's previous question regarding child-rearing in ISKCON, Curt returned to the guru kula
(group childcare and elementary education) system, noting how negatively all that criticism
would affect the children.
Curt and Ken continued to discuss the formation of low self-esteem in children, and how a
highly critical and denigrating environment creates poor self-esteem. Ken noted how, as a
devotee, he envied Krishna children for being able to “get on a spiritual plane so early” in
life. Ken seemed agitated here: he talked in a low-key voice, and he looked very absorbed
and attentive yet “on edge.” I wondered if memories of his own background and unhappy
childhood were affecting him. Ken veered the conversation away from this topic and back to
some of his humorous experiences with other devotees and gurus. Curt responded to Ken's
hesitancy (resistance?), and brought the conversation back to child-raising. Ken asked him
to estimate how much love, support and attention a child needs. Curt responded, “Just think
of how much you need and double it.”
Ken's interest in ISKCON child-rearing practices seemed to remind Curt of his videotape on
guru kulas (an investigative report from Texas). He retrieved the videotape from a suitcase,
but before playing the tape, he warned Ken about “floating.” “Now this may have some bit
of an adverse effect on you watching this. What I mean by that is, a lot of times when
somebody is at this stage of a deprogramming, seeing the devotees, hearing the chanting...
may induce what is commonly referred to as a floating state. If that happens, don't worry
about it, we can talk about it.” As he set up the tape, Curt described the rationale behind
the guru kulas, in the context of how the Krishnas manipulate people: They take an the
