Cultic Studies Journal, Vol. 6, No. 2, 1989, Page 65
deprogramming], then quickly retracted the question. Curt did not want anyone to mistake
his joke for a serious question: “I was only kidding, I was acting like Greg was in charge.”
Greg belched loudly, going along with the charade: “It is true what can I say?” Everyone
laughed. But the talk broke down again into two separate, simultaneous conversations, with
Ken continuing to talk exclusively with Daniel. Greg mentioned TV evangelists, and Ken was
entreated to join this conversation. Mockingly, Ken wondered aloud if the “A.C.” in
Prabhupada's name stood for “Anti-Christ.” Curt was involved in setting up a videotape of
Greg and me on the Maury Povich show. When this was done, Curt called for quiet.
Comment. I found the brief acknowledgement of the power struggle between Greg and
Curt to be noteworthy. Throughout the deprogramming, power and control were underlying,
covert issues. In part this conflict was quite ordinary. Power and control are issues all task-
oriented groups must resolve, covertly or overtly (Cartwright and Zander, 1968). But
deprogramming is a highly specialized small-group process. In this deprogramming, as with
most there was a previously designated deprogramming “team leader” (Curt). But it is
impossible to predict beforehand which deprogrammer will be most able to establish rapport
with the cultist, or which deprogrammer will have the best “handle” on the situation.
Moreover, degree of rapport can change, with interpersonal „closeness' shifting between
various dyads or triads. In this deprogramming, Greg and Ken seemed to be in close
rapport, as had been expected and hoped for. But Curt was the most omnipresent
deprogrammer, and this constancy in and of itself also seemed to have an impact on the
amount of “bonding” between deprogrammer and deprogrammee. Curt exerted a relatively
flexible yet ultimately unyielding control over Ken's deprogramming. He could and did yield
his control here and there, but it was always clearly temporary, and at Curt‟s discretion.
Remarks similar to the quip made in relation to Greg, typically couched in humor, appeared
to serve as process markers and inhibitors. They de-energized covert shifts in control, and
seemed to set the other deprogrammers “in their place” without forcing to the surface any
underlying hostility.
Back on track. The conversation between deprogrammers and deprogrammee continued to
move in various, unfocused directions. Ken and Sandy talked again about how cult leaders
claim their own physical illnesses (and even deaths) are the result of taking into their
“spiritual and physical beings” the sins or evils of others. Then they discussed ISKCON's
involvement with gun smuggling. With the inclusion of Daniel's brother Raymond m the
conversation, the talk digressed into a machismo-dominated discussion of a new, smaller,
and more powerful Uzi machine gun. Meanwhile, on the videotape (in between the two talk
shows), a comedy skit on psychics caught our attention and made everyone laugh again.
The amount of joining around had definitely increased by the third day, causing even Ken to
call attention to it “Come on, are we just here for fun or are we gonna deprogram me? ...l
want to get into the [material].” Curt, acting on Ken's cue, more strongly exerted his
dominance. Telling everyone to be quiet with merely a glance, he asked, “You want to get
into deprogramming?” Ken replied in the affirmative. Curt half kiddingly, passed the
deprogrammee. “You sure?” Ken grew assertive. “Yeah. I want to listen to my tape of
Vishnupada defending Jayatirtha.” Following a brief discussion of where the tape was
located [Ken was not sure he had it with him.), Curt asked Ken if he could borrow all the
material Ken brought with him, except his journal. Curt's collection of ISKCON material was
somewhat legendary in deprogramming circles he had collected it over the years from
devotees he successfully deprogrammed. Ken, however, balked. “No ...you're not even my
guru, man!” Everyone laughed, and even Curt had to reply, “You mean I haven't been
elevated to guru status yet?” Curt‟s non-defensive response brought another round of
laughter. Ken and Curt then began to go through Ken's backpack, as Ken explained its
contents. Ken happened upon his journal and he stopped to read some of his writing to
Curt. The material was devotional to his guru and ISKCON, and I was surprised that Ken
read it and laughed without sounding embarrassed. It seemed to me that Ken had already
deprogramming], then quickly retracted the question. Curt did not want anyone to mistake
his joke for a serious question: “I was only kidding, I was acting like Greg was in charge.”
Greg belched loudly, going along with the charade: “It is true what can I say?” Everyone
laughed. But the talk broke down again into two separate, simultaneous conversations, with
Ken continuing to talk exclusively with Daniel. Greg mentioned TV evangelists, and Ken was
entreated to join this conversation. Mockingly, Ken wondered aloud if the “A.C.” in
Prabhupada's name stood for “Anti-Christ.” Curt was involved in setting up a videotape of
Greg and me on the Maury Povich show. When this was done, Curt called for quiet.
Comment. I found the brief acknowledgement of the power struggle between Greg and
Curt to be noteworthy. Throughout the deprogramming, power and control were underlying,
covert issues. In part this conflict was quite ordinary. Power and control are issues all task-
oriented groups must resolve, covertly or overtly (Cartwright and Zander, 1968). But
deprogramming is a highly specialized small-group process. In this deprogramming, as with
most there was a previously designated deprogramming “team leader” (Curt). But it is
impossible to predict beforehand which deprogrammer will be most able to establish rapport
with the cultist, or which deprogrammer will have the best “handle” on the situation.
Moreover, degree of rapport can change, with interpersonal „closeness' shifting between
various dyads or triads. In this deprogramming, Greg and Ken seemed to be in close
rapport, as had been expected and hoped for. But Curt was the most omnipresent
deprogrammer, and this constancy in and of itself also seemed to have an impact on the
amount of “bonding” between deprogrammer and deprogrammee. Curt exerted a relatively
flexible yet ultimately unyielding control over Ken's deprogramming. He could and did yield
his control here and there, but it was always clearly temporary, and at Curt‟s discretion.
Remarks similar to the quip made in relation to Greg, typically couched in humor, appeared
to serve as process markers and inhibitors. They de-energized covert shifts in control, and
seemed to set the other deprogrammers “in their place” without forcing to the surface any
underlying hostility.
Back on track. The conversation between deprogrammers and deprogrammee continued to
move in various, unfocused directions. Ken and Sandy talked again about how cult leaders
claim their own physical illnesses (and even deaths) are the result of taking into their
“spiritual and physical beings” the sins or evils of others. Then they discussed ISKCON's
involvement with gun smuggling. With the inclusion of Daniel's brother Raymond m the
conversation, the talk digressed into a machismo-dominated discussion of a new, smaller,
and more powerful Uzi machine gun. Meanwhile, on the videotape (in between the two talk
shows), a comedy skit on psychics caught our attention and made everyone laugh again.
The amount of joining around had definitely increased by the third day, causing even Ken to
call attention to it “Come on, are we just here for fun or are we gonna deprogram me? ...l
want to get into the [material].” Curt, acting on Ken's cue, more strongly exerted his
dominance. Telling everyone to be quiet with merely a glance, he asked, “You want to get
into deprogramming?” Ken replied in the affirmative. Curt half kiddingly, passed the
deprogrammee. “You sure?” Ken grew assertive. “Yeah. I want to listen to my tape of
Vishnupada defending Jayatirtha.” Following a brief discussion of where the tape was
located [Ken was not sure he had it with him.), Curt asked Ken if he could borrow all the
material Ken brought with him, except his journal. Curt's collection of ISKCON material was
somewhat legendary in deprogramming circles he had collected it over the years from
devotees he successfully deprogrammed. Ken, however, balked. “No ...you're not even my
guru, man!” Everyone laughed, and even Curt had to reply, “You mean I haven't been
elevated to guru status yet?” Curt‟s non-defensive response brought another round of
laughter. Ken and Curt then began to go through Ken's backpack, as Ken explained its
contents. Ken happened upon his journal and he stopped to read some of his writing to
Curt. The material was devotional to his guru and ISKCON, and I was surprised that Ken
read it and laughed without sounding embarrassed. It seemed to me that Ken had already
