Cultic Studies Journal, Vol. 6, No. 2, 1989, Page 70
and began listening and commenting rather than trying to explain.) Meanwhile, Curt was
engaged in an intense discussion with Sandy and Greg of what they needed to cover in
Lifton. Curt then went into the kitchen Greg joined in with Brian and Ken. They discussed
various notions of the “soul.” Because apparently Ken's only knowledge of these matters
was what he had learned in ISKCON, he cited primarily doctrine. Brian cut in, and began to
explain the process of reality testing. He launched into an example. If ISKCON says that if
you don't change your children will be demonic, we must first define “demonic.” Such
behaviors as lying and cheating might be indications of demonic possession. Then, observe
the children of both Krishna and non-Krishna parents. Is there a correlation between non-
demonic behavior and chanting? If not, we must try a different theory. One theory might be
that certain kinds of child-rearing, regardless of whether or not parents are chanting Hare
Krishna, result in “misbehaving” children. If that theory is a better predictor of child
behavior, then that theory must be closer to “the truth.” While he did not seem to follow all
of Brian's line of reasoning, Ken did finally relate to this abstraction. He expounded on
Brian's example by discussing how in ISKCON, it was accepted as fact that when one
encountered bratty Krishna children, it meant that their parents had not been chanting their
rounds. If the parents were chanting their rounds, then they weren't doing it with enough
commitment.
Dinner and a return to videotapes. It was getting late. Stephanie interrupted the
deprogramming to ask if Ken wanted some pizza he asked for mushroom pizza. As they
waited for the pies, Greg and Ken discussed the absurdities inherent in a belief in
reincarnation. I noticed that when Brian talked, Ken rarely said anything. Now, with Greg
back in the discussion, the conversation seemed to return to its more equitable equilibrium.
Stephanie and Risa returned to the kitchen to cook and clean. Sandy rejoined the
conversation, and the discussion returned to more general religious questions (e.g., the
nature of God). Sandy continued to keep the conversation relatively humorous and light.
This was clearly his style and a large part of his skill at building rapport. Ken ate his
mushroom pizza, and seemed to really enjoy it. Mushrooms are considered aphrodisiacs by
ISKCON, and thus are forbidden. He commented on how long it had been since he had
eaten mushrooms. Curt talked briefly about hallucinogenic mushrooms. By that time,
everyone was eating, and the conversation remained centered on ISKCON, but was fairly
light and peppered with jokes. Greg half-kiddingly asked Ken what his method of
purification would be, now that he would not be chanting Hare Krishna. Ken: “Oh, toga
parties. The big bong and the big dong.” Greg did not laugh at this (I felt it constituted a
form of “gallows humor”), although he acknowledged it “Oh, that kind of purification.” Curt
noted that it was probably time to think about getting some sleep. Sandy mockingly read
some advertisements for a variety of Krishna and other Eastern religious artifacts, with
promises that they would do all kinds of magical things. Ken and Greg talked about Krishna
recipes named after gurus, and made jokes about these. Ken then reached for some of
Cures copies of Back to Godhead, and began to poke fun at some of the articles and picture
captions. Curt returned and announced he was going to play the rest of “The Moore Report”
He wanted Ken to see the interview with Conway and Siegelman, the authors of Snapping.
“The Moore Report” continued with interviews of former cultists, and of Robert Lifton. There
was very little discussion as the tape played, with the exception of a few comments
(typically agreeing with what was said) here and there. When the narrator discussed the use
of fear, Ken commented on his own experiences with fear in ISKCON. Following “The Moore
Report” there was another brief documentary that also involved a section on Rehab,
including an interview with Curt. Ken watched that part closely.
As the videotape came to an end, Ken talked about trying to get some sleep. Everyone
agreed this would be a good idea. For some time, Ken and the deprogrammers vied to
and began listening and commenting rather than trying to explain.) Meanwhile, Curt was
engaged in an intense discussion with Sandy and Greg of what they needed to cover in
Lifton. Curt then went into the kitchen Greg joined in with Brian and Ken. They discussed
various notions of the “soul.” Because apparently Ken's only knowledge of these matters
was what he had learned in ISKCON, he cited primarily doctrine. Brian cut in, and began to
explain the process of reality testing. He launched into an example. If ISKCON says that if
you don't change your children will be demonic, we must first define “demonic.” Such
behaviors as lying and cheating might be indications of demonic possession. Then, observe
the children of both Krishna and non-Krishna parents. Is there a correlation between non-
demonic behavior and chanting? If not, we must try a different theory. One theory might be
that certain kinds of child-rearing, regardless of whether or not parents are chanting Hare
Krishna, result in “misbehaving” children. If that theory is a better predictor of child
behavior, then that theory must be closer to “the truth.” While he did not seem to follow all
of Brian's line of reasoning, Ken did finally relate to this abstraction. He expounded on
Brian's example by discussing how in ISKCON, it was accepted as fact that when one
encountered bratty Krishna children, it meant that their parents had not been chanting their
rounds. If the parents were chanting their rounds, then they weren't doing it with enough
commitment.
Dinner and a return to videotapes. It was getting late. Stephanie interrupted the
deprogramming to ask if Ken wanted some pizza he asked for mushroom pizza. As they
waited for the pies, Greg and Ken discussed the absurdities inherent in a belief in
reincarnation. I noticed that when Brian talked, Ken rarely said anything. Now, with Greg
back in the discussion, the conversation seemed to return to its more equitable equilibrium.
Stephanie and Risa returned to the kitchen to cook and clean. Sandy rejoined the
conversation, and the discussion returned to more general religious questions (e.g., the
nature of God). Sandy continued to keep the conversation relatively humorous and light.
This was clearly his style and a large part of his skill at building rapport. Ken ate his
mushroom pizza, and seemed to really enjoy it. Mushrooms are considered aphrodisiacs by
ISKCON, and thus are forbidden. He commented on how long it had been since he had
eaten mushrooms. Curt talked briefly about hallucinogenic mushrooms. By that time,
everyone was eating, and the conversation remained centered on ISKCON, but was fairly
light and peppered with jokes. Greg half-kiddingly asked Ken what his method of
purification would be, now that he would not be chanting Hare Krishna. Ken: “Oh, toga
parties. The big bong and the big dong.” Greg did not laugh at this (I felt it constituted a
form of “gallows humor”), although he acknowledged it “Oh, that kind of purification.” Curt
noted that it was probably time to think about getting some sleep. Sandy mockingly read
some advertisements for a variety of Krishna and other Eastern religious artifacts, with
promises that they would do all kinds of magical things. Ken and Greg talked about Krishna
recipes named after gurus, and made jokes about these. Ken then reached for some of
Cures copies of Back to Godhead, and began to poke fun at some of the articles and picture
captions. Curt returned and announced he was going to play the rest of “The Moore Report”
He wanted Ken to see the interview with Conway and Siegelman, the authors of Snapping.
“The Moore Report” continued with interviews of former cultists, and of Robert Lifton. There
was very little discussion as the tape played, with the exception of a few comments
(typically agreeing with what was said) here and there. When the narrator discussed the use
of fear, Ken commented on his own experiences with fear in ISKCON. Following “The Moore
Report” there was another brief documentary that also involved a section on Rehab,
including an interview with Curt. Ken watched that part closely.
As the videotape came to an end, Ken talked about trying to get some sleep. Everyone
agreed this would be a good idea. For some time, Ken and the deprogrammers vied to
