Cultic Studies Journal, Vol. 6, No. 2, 1989, Page 30
Looking for a Subject
Plans to observe and tape the Ken Butler deprogramming began in August 1983, when I
first met Greg Stern, a former ISKCON (International Society for Krishna Consciousness)
devotee who was himself deprogrammed in 198 by a deprogramming team led by Curt
Miller. Since then, Greg had worked on several deprogramming cases. I talked to Greg and
his wife Bobbi about my dissertation plans and my need to observe and tape a
deprogramming from beginning to end. They responded positively to my plans and stated
their willingness to help. The matter did not come up again until October 1983 when Greg
called to tell me that he would be consulting on a deprogramming and he would ask Curt,
who was again the team leader, if I might observe. A few days later, the deprogramming
began. This case did not seem to be “typical” one. Nevertheless, observing this
deprogramming gave me the opportunity to meet Curt and his team (who would be good
future contacts) In addition, the team was concerned about the cultist (“Barry”), who
seemed to be demonstrating psychotic symptoms, and they wanted input from a mental
health professional. This deprogramming did in fact turn out to be highly atypical the cultist
did appear to be psychotic, and once this was established, the formal deprogramming ended
and the deprogramming team tried to convince the cultist's parents of the need for
psychiatric hospitalization. I maintained copious notes on what happened, which
contributed to the formulation of hypotheses regarding deprogrammer (if no cultist)
behavior.
In January 1984, at a meeting of the local chapter of the Citizens Freedom Foundation
(CFF), a national cult awareness network, I initially met Risa Butler. Risa talked briefly
about her son, who was in ISKCON, and about what could be done. Deprogramming was not
mentioned by anyone at this time. In February, I met Risa again, at a workshop I was
conducting. She recognized me, and after the workshop, she spoke with me for a few
minutes Risa was considering a deprogramming. I told her about my study, and I asked her
if she would contact me should she decide to go through with the deprogramming.
Finding a Subject
About two months later, in early April, I heard from Bobbi and Greg Stern that Curt Miller
would be coming into Philadelphia soon to conduct a Krishna deprogramming. I called Risa
to ask her if this deprogramming involved her son. She acknowledged that she was thinking
about a deprogramming, but would not give me any more information Curt‟s standard
instruction to parents is to avoid divulging any information to anyone over the phone. On
the weekend of April 13-15, Bobbi and I attended a Regional CFF conference. Curt was
there, primarily to keep in touch with referral sources. He had just returned from a
deprogramming in Arizona. We had lunch together and discussed this most recent case, as
well as the October 1983 case involving Barry, the apparently psychotic Krishna. I reminded
Curt of my need for a “typical” deprogramming. He informed me that he would be working
for Risa starting that Monday or Tuesday. He agreed to allow me to conduct my study, and
asked me to allow him to make the arrangements with Risa and the family at whose house
the deprogramming would be held.
I was able to find out where Curt was staying from Greg, who was planning to assist on the
case, and I called him that Monday evening, April 16. I detected a combination of covert
hesitation with overt readiness to be of assistance in Curt's voice. He gave me the address
of the deprogramming site (a home located in a Philadelphia suburb), and slightly incorrect
directions to their house. The house where the deprogramming was to take place was
owned by “Robert and Ellen Epstein,” an anti-cult activist couple whose oldest son had
himself been deprogrammed out of ISKCON. I could not recall having met them before. Curt
then explained that he would call me to let me know when I could come to the house.
Looking for a Subject
Plans to observe and tape the Ken Butler deprogramming began in August 1983, when I
first met Greg Stern, a former ISKCON (International Society for Krishna Consciousness)
devotee who was himself deprogrammed in 198 by a deprogramming team led by Curt
Miller. Since then, Greg had worked on several deprogramming cases. I talked to Greg and
his wife Bobbi about my dissertation plans and my need to observe and tape a
deprogramming from beginning to end. They responded positively to my plans and stated
their willingness to help. The matter did not come up again until October 1983 when Greg
called to tell me that he would be consulting on a deprogramming and he would ask Curt,
who was again the team leader, if I might observe. A few days later, the deprogramming
began. This case did not seem to be “typical” one. Nevertheless, observing this
deprogramming gave me the opportunity to meet Curt and his team (who would be good
future contacts) In addition, the team was concerned about the cultist (“Barry”), who
seemed to be demonstrating psychotic symptoms, and they wanted input from a mental
health professional. This deprogramming did in fact turn out to be highly atypical the cultist
did appear to be psychotic, and once this was established, the formal deprogramming ended
and the deprogramming team tried to convince the cultist's parents of the need for
psychiatric hospitalization. I maintained copious notes on what happened, which
contributed to the formulation of hypotheses regarding deprogrammer (if no cultist)
behavior.
In January 1984, at a meeting of the local chapter of the Citizens Freedom Foundation
(CFF), a national cult awareness network, I initially met Risa Butler. Risa talked briefly
about her son, who was in ISKCON, and about what could be done. Deprogramming was not
mentioned by anyone at this time. In February, I met Risa again, at a workshop I was
conducting. She recognized me, and after the workshop, she spoke with me for a few
minutes Risa was considering a deprogramming. I told her about my study, and I asked her
if she would contact me should she decide to go through with the deprogramming.
Finding a Subject
About two months later, in early April, I heard from Bobbi and Greg Stern that Curt Miller
would be coming into Philadelphia soon to conduct a Krishna deprogramming. I called Risa
to ask her if this deprogramming involved her son. She acknowledged that she was thinking
about a deprogramming, but would not give me any more information Curt‟s standard
instruction to parents is to avoid divulging any information to anyone over the phone. On
the weekend of April 13-15, Bobbi and I attended a Regional CFF conference. Curt was
there, primarily to keep in touch with referral sources. He had just returned from a
deprogramming in Arizona. We had lunch together and discussed this most recent case, as
well as the October 1983 case involving Barry, the apparently psychotic Krishna. I reminded
Curt of my need for a “typical” deprogramming. He informed me that he would be working
for Risa starting that Monday or Tuesday. He agreed to allow me to conduct my study, and
asked me to allow him to make the arrangements with Risa and the family at whose house
the deprogramming would be held.
I was able to find out where Curt was staying from Greg, who was planning to assist on the
case, and I called him that Monday evening, April 16. I detected a combination of covert
hesitation with overt readiness to be of assistance in Curt's voice. He gave me the address
of the deprogramming site (a home located in a Philadelphia suburb), and slightly incorrect
directions to their house. The house where the deprogramming was to take place was
owned by “Robert and Ellen Epstein,” an anti-cult activist couple whose oldest son had
himself been deprogrammed out of ISKCON. I could not recall having met them before. Curt
then explained that he would call me to let me know when I could come to the house.
