Cultic Studies Journal, Vol. 6, No. 2, 1989, Page 48
Ken's Attention. Curt seemed to think it would be helpful for Ken to hear an example of
someone who defected from a totalistic system, so he began to read a testimonial from a
Russian defector. Curt read, and summarized what he considered the most important
points. “He's starting to question. Instead of always bringing it back on himself, which the
philosophy [Communism] demands. He‟s starting to question, “well maybe there‟s
something wrong with the system.” In Russia [as in ISKCON, by implication], Curt noted,
“you're not supposed to openly question ...because the State is held as infallible.” Ken then
related how, if he lived in Russia, he probably would wind up exiled to Siberia. Curt
continued reading the testimonial, stopping periodically to note how Russian totalism is both
similar and dissimilar from ISKCON. While listening to the defector's story, Ken was
tangentially reminded of an ex-Krishna's testimonial and he began to ask critical questions
about him. After briefly defending the ex-Krishna, Curt reminded Ken that they had to get
more focused. The conversation had tended to move from topic to topic, which seemed to
result in Ken's flitting from one thought to another. Ken remarked that he was not “staying
put” (on topic) because he was interested in what the deprogrammers have to say. “But,”
Curt responded, half apologetically and with humor, “we're cramping your style.” Ken
agreed, adding that “flitting” tended to be his style. “You take me for what it (sic] is, you
know.” Curt: “There's no tricks up our sleeves, man ...nobody's bullshitting you, I‟m just
telling you what you're doing.”
Curt's comment, and Ken's reply, were fascinating to me, as they both addressed my
interest in attentional motility. Furthermore, I had predicted that just the opposite would
happen: that motility would increase, not decrease, with time.
Curt noted to Ken that much of what they had been talking about he has experienced
himself or heard before from others. The talk then moved on briefly to some of the
unethical deprogrammings (e.g., reports of sex) Ken had heard about and commented on
previously. Curt claimed that his own policy was to never have sex with deprogrammees
“during or after the deprogramming or 6 months down the road.” At this point I noted
another pattern: when Curt talked, Ken mostly listened, and now Curt and the other
deprogrammers seemed to account for over half of the conversation. Although Ken was not
as verbally active at this time, when he did talk, I noticed what seemed to be an increase in
the amount of self-disclosure. As Ken self-disclosed, Greg seemed to be conveying an
attitude of close and intense listening, responding with what appeared to be a high degree
of empathy.
The conversation returned again to justifying the need for security measures.
Deprogrammers have to take precautions, Curt noted, because “nobody ever announces
they are going to escape.” In making this statement, there seemed to be no trace of anger
or condemnation in Curt‟s voice, which in turn seemed to prompt Ken to confess that
despite his promise to the contrary, he too had made some plans to escape. To my surprise,
everyone laughed good- naturedly at this disclosure, perhaps because it had confirmed their
initial suspicions. The laughter also seemed to relieve tension. The deprogramming was, to
some degree, a cat-and-mouse game and now everyone could acknowledge it. When the
laughter died down, however, the talk grew more serious again, as it returned to the
Krishna gun caches. Curt read an official ISKCON statement that “it is against the official
policy of the ISKCON to keep any stockpiles of guns or any munitions”. Ken had trouble
hearing this statement and made Curt read the policy statement four times. Curt did not
stop with this statement, however. As was his style, when he saw a “chink” in Ken's
cognitive armor, he overwhelmed it with information. He continued with several other news
reports of gun possession, and then told Ken about Dara Coy's own experience.
Impressions. I have discovered that there comes a point in many deprogrammings when
relatively secret internal documents and books are shared and examined. The timing is
important because the cultist must be open to the information, and yet unperturbed at this
Ken's Attention. Curt seemed to think it would be helpful for Ken to hear an example of
someone who defected from a totalistic system, so he began to read a testimonial from a
Russian defector. Curt read, and summarized what he considered the most important
points. “He's starting to question. Instead of always bringing it back on himself, which the
philosophy [Communism] demands. He‟s starting to question, “well maybe there‟s
something wrong with the system.” In Russia [as in ISKCON, by implication], Curt noted,
“you're not supposed to openly question ...because the State is held as infallible.” Ken then
related how, if he lived in Russia, he probably would wind up exiled to Siberia. Curt
continued reading the testimonial, stopping periodically to note how Russian totalism is both
similar and dissimilar from ISKCON. While listening to the defector's story, Ken was
tangentially reminded of an ex-Krishna's testimonial and he began to ask critical questions
about him. After briefly defending the ex-Krishna, Curt reminded Ken that they had to get
more focused. The conversation had tended to move from topic to topic, which seemed to
result in Ken's flitting from one thought to another. Ken remarked that he was not “staying
put” (on topic) because he was interested in what the deprogrammers have to say. “But,”
Curt responded, half apologetically and with humor, “we're cramping your style.” Ken
agreed, adding that “flitting” tended to be his style. “You take me for what it (sic] is, you
know.” Curt: “There's no tricks up our sleeves, man ...nobody's bullshitting you, I‟m just
telling you what you're doing.”
Curt's comment, and Ken's reply, were fascinating to me, as they both addressed my
interest in attentional motility. Furthermore, I had predicted that just the opposite would
happen: that motility would increase, not decrease, with time.
Curt noted to Ken that much of what they had been talking about he has experienced
himself or heard before from others. The talk then moved on briefly to some of the
unethical deprogrammings (e.g., reports of sex) Ken had heard about and commented on
previously. Curt claimed that his own policy was to never have sex with deprogrammees
“during or after the deprogramming or 6 months down the road.” At this point I noted
another pattern: when Curt talked, Ken mostly listened, and now Curt and the other
deprogrammers seemed to account for over half of the conversation. Although Ken was not
as verbally active at this time, when he did talk, I noticed what seemed to be an increase in
the amount of self-disclosure. As Ken self-disclosed, Greg seemed to be conveying an
attitude of close and intense listening, responding with what appeared to be a high degree
of empathy.
The conversation returned again to justifying the need for security measures.
Deprogrammers have to take precautions, Curt noted, because “nobody ever announces
they are going to escape.” In making this statement, there seemed to be no trace of anger
or condemnation in Curt‟s voice, which in turn seemed to prompt Ken to confess that
despite his promise to the contrary, he too had made some plans to escape. To my surprise,
everyone laughed good- naturedly at this disclosure, perhaps because it had confirmed their
initial suspicions. The laughter also seemed to relieve tension. The deprogramming was, to
some degree, a cat-and-mouse game and now everyone could acknowledge it. When the
laughter died down, however, the talk grew more serious again, as it returned to the
Krishna gun caches. Curt read an official ISKCON statement that “it is against the official
policy of the ISKCON to keep any stockpiles of guns or any munitions”. Ken had trouble
hearing this statement and made Curt read the policy statement four times. Curt did not
stop with this statement, however. As was his style, when he saw a “chink” in Ken's
cognitive armor, he overwhelmed it with information. He continued with several other news
reports of gun possession, and then told Ken about Dara Coy's own experience.
Impressions. I have discovered that there comes a point in many deprogrammings when
relatively secret internal documents and books are shared and examined. The timing is
important because the cultist must be open to the information, and yet unperturbed at this
