Cultic Studies Journal, Vol. 6, No. 2, 1989, Page 50
he never stopped wondering if Ken was trying to “con” him. Ken asked Curt what he meant
by “B-Sing.” Curt replied that he was referring to not being honest about what Ken was
feeling or experiencing he reminded Ken that when the deprogramming first started, the
only thing he wanted was for Ken “to deal with this information honestly ...to have an
honest dialogue.” Curt then related stories about other deprogrammees who had attempted
to con him. “People have become very expert at lying.” To this, Sandy added: “They also
give you training in lying.” Ken looked troubled. Curt explained his intent: “I'm not [bringing
this up] because I'm interested in catching you lying. I'm interested in you as one person to
another ..I want you to get the full benefit of this without you in the back of your mind
negating all of it.” Seeing that his words were not causing agitation in Ken, Curt backed off
a bit: “I don't think you are...” As if to gain Ken's sympathy, Curt then went on to explain
further why he was so suspicious: “And I don't like to be the heavy, but somebody's got to
be in that position.”
Ken hesitated, then backed off his own impatience by asking if the deprogramming might be
over, after 6 days. I was surprised that Curt did not challenge Ken on why he picked this
number. (Did Ken still hope to go to Puerto Rico?) Apparently, however, Curt now felt
reassured of Ken's sincerity. So he answered Ken, “Six days is an entirely reasonable period
of time,” but if Ken is conning him, then they will have to start all over again, and on the
whole, he will take as long as necessary. Curt once again tried to soothe Ken: “I always
want to believe the person ...but we have been talking about a mentality that has been
developed in the Krishna organization” that makes lying and other actions justified. “The will
to believe is very intense.” Ken repeated his desire to at least get out of the house for a
brief time. Curt responded with empathy: “I can understand that, everyone gets a little
cabin fever. We don't have to stay inside this room” Then Curt told Ken that they would go
downstairs to watch a video, and might even go outside a bit tomorrow. But Curt demanded
more trust: “First we have to develop some type of feeling for you ...I'm laying all my cards
on the table ...I won't bullshit you, I'll tell you [if and when I do or do not trust you).” Curt
then went on to state that he was now beginning to like Ken. “But I've also ...been taken”
[by people I have liked]. It‟s been a long, long time since I have been [taken] and I'd like to
keep that track record” intact. “Don't take it personally, Ken ...It's just the kind of thing
that happens [referring to the ability to con] to people who have been through
indoctrination. And yeah, I take a lot of pride in the fact that, hey, we need to be here, for
your sake. Fact is, when [we are finished] whether you either leave [ISKCOM or go back,
my life goes on. And I'm going to do OK. But I know if you walk out of here ...half-way
through this, ifs going to be ...difficult for you. You'll have a lot more difficulty with life than
necessary.” Curt must have seemed sincere to Ken, as he replied with what seemed and
sounded like an honest appraisal of his current stand on continuing with ISKCON: “I'm not
sure.” Curt: “If you're on the fence, and I'm not even talking about the Krishna organization
...there's going to be a lot of fear ...there will be moments when you (float]. A lot of these
issues will come up ...these are all things we need to deal with ...I'm not going to beat
you over the head until you see things my way ...I'm not going to baby-sit you for the next
several months.” Curt then went on to explain that he wanted to “set [Ken] off in the right
direction ” he would get him in touch with other sources of support for leaving. Ken seemed
genuinely thankful. “I appreciate that.”
Emotion and the push: An analysis. This brief but intense conversation seemed to have
the affective ups and downs, twists and turns, of an emotional roller coaster. Curt did not
appear to be purposely manipulative, yet the underlying message to Ken, now that Ken
appeared to be concerned with Curt's opinion of him seemed to be: “Try harder, really work
at breaking your ISKCON bonds, and I will accept you.” And the result of this conversation
seemed to be increased compliance on Ken‟s part.
he never stopped wondering if Ken was trying to “con” him. Ken asked Curt what he meant
by “B-Sing.” Curt replied that he was referring to not being honest about what Ken was
feeling or experiencing he reminded Ken that when the deprogramming first started, the
only thing he wanted was for Ken “to deal with this information honestly ...to have an
honest dialogue.” Curt then related stories about other deprogrammees who had attempted
to con him. “People have become very expert at lying.” To this, Sandy added: “They also
give you training in lying.” Ken looked troubled. Curt explained his intent: “I'm not [bringing
this up] because I'm interested in catching you lying. I'm interested in you as one person to
another ..I want you to get the full benefit of this without you in the back of your mind
negating all of it.” Seeing that his words were not causing agitation in Ken, Curt backed off
a bit: “I don't think you are...” As if to gain Ken's sympathy, Curt then went on to explain
further why he was so suspicious: “And I don't like to be the heavy, but somebody's got to
be in that position.”
Ken hesitated, then backed off his own impatience by asking if the deprogramming might be
over, after 6 days. I was surprised that Curt did not challenge Ken on why he picked this
number. (Did Ken still hope to go to Puerto Rico?) Apparently, however, Curt now felt
reassured of Ken's sincerity. So he answered Ken, “Six days is an entirely reasonable period
of time,” but if Ken is conning him, then they will have to start all over again, and on the
whole, he will take as long as necessary. Curt once again tried to soothe Ken: “I always
want to believe the person ...but we have been talking about a mentality that has been
developed in the Krishna organization” that makes lying and other actions justified. “The will
to believe is very intense.” Ken repeated his desire to at least get out of the house for a
brief time. Curt responded with empathy: “I can understand that, everyone gets a little
cabin fever. We don't have to stay inside this room” Then Curt told Ken that they would go
downstairs to watch a video, and might even go outside a bit tomorrow. But Curt demanded
more trust: “First we have to develop some type of feeling for you ...I'm laying all my cards
on the table ...I won't bullshit you, I'll tell you [if and when I do or do not trust you).” Curt
then went on to state that he was now beginning to like Ken. “But I've also ...been taken”
[by people I have liked]. It‟s been a long, long time since I have been [taken] and I'd like to
keep that track record” intact. “Don't take it personally, Ken ...It's just the kind of thing
that happens [referring to the ability to con] to people who have been through
indoctrination. And yeah, I take a lot of pride in the fact that, hey, we need to be here, for
your sake. Fact is, when [we are finished] whether you either leave [ISKCOM or go back,
my life goes on. And I'm going to do OK. But I know if you walk out of here ...half-way
through this, ifs going to be ...difficult for you. You'll have a lot more difficulty with life than
necessary.” Curt must have seemed sincere to Ken, as he replied with what seemed and
sounded like an honest appraisal of his current stand on continuing with ISKCON: “I'm not
sure.” Curt: “If you're on the fence, and I'm not even talking about the Krishna organization
...there's going to be a lot of fear ...there will be moments when you (float]. A lot of these
issues will come up ...these are all things we need to deal with ...I'm not going to beat
you over the head until you see things my way ...I'm not going to baby-sit you for the next
several months.” Curt then went on to explain that he wanted to “set [Ken] off in the right
direction ” he would get him in touch with other sources of support for leaving. Ken seemed
genuinely thankful. “I appreciate that.”
Emotion and the push: An analysis. This brief but intense conversation seemed to have
the affective ups and downs, twists and turns, of an emotional roller coaster. Curt did not
appear to be purposely manipulative, yet the underlying message to Ken, now that Ken
appeared to be concerned with Curt's opinion of him seemed to be: “Try harder, really work
at breaking your ISKCON bonds, and I will accept you.” And the result of this conversation
seemed to be increased compliance on Ken‟s part.
