Cultic Studies Journal, Vol. 6, No. 2, 1989, Page 60
and materials. Some of these thoughts were not new while a member, Ken had suppressed
them. Greg related that he had suppressed similar thoughts when he was in ISKCON. Ken
then mentioned that he had some dreams last night. Curt, noting the import Ken appeared
to be assigning to his dreams, began to warn against interpreting dreams as though they
were messages from the spiritual world telling him to go back to ISKCON. A general
discussion of the interpretation of dreams ensued. In the background, Ken's mother began
whisking eggs (to make more scrambled eggs), and I went into the kitchen to see if I could
help. As I took over some of the food preparation, Risa began to clean pots and pans. She
listened to her son, yet her activity level made it clear that she could not devote undivided
attention to him. She later told me that she had considerable difficulty listening to ISKCON
philosophy, even when it was criticized it upset her too much.
The conversation remained focused on cult issues. Brian came downstairs, and began
comparing ISKCON doctrine with Moonist doctrine. I interrupted the conversation to ask if
Ken would object to some of the deprogrammers eating bacon in front of him. Ken replied
that it would not bother him, despite the fact that “bacon is full of chemicals.”
The conversation became focused on Ken‟s pre-cult past, with Greg and Ken comparing high
school memories, and led naturally to a discussion of how they got involved in ISKCON, and
their family backgrounds. Greg noted that their “high schools were rivals...” The talk here
was casual, and took place in the kitchen, with people drifting in and out of the conversation
with Ken. Curt noted the anti-Krishna lyrics in “I Am the Walrus.” Greg then led several
people into spontaneously singing this song. Curt broke in and asked who wanted to eat
eggs. Most of the ongoing conversation with Ken was between Ken and Greg. Curt did most
of the talking with Ken's mother, about the cooking. The spontaneous singing of the Beatles
song led Ken into a reverie as he related some of the fun he had in ISKCON, when he was
allowed to sing and dance. Sandy subtly redirected Ken's yearnings, by asking him about
his taste in music prior to ISKCON. Ken liked folk and classical rock (“like Judy Collins,
Renaissance”), and the Grateful Dead. Greg talked about some of the great music festivals
and concerts of the early and mid Seventies. They also discussed the spiritual influences in
some rock groups (e.g., Mahavishnu Orchestra). Ken's mother drifted in and out of the
conversation as she began to serve brunch. As everyone was seated, the talk grew more
orderly and more clearly focused again on Ken. At this point, I noticed a distinct difference
in the nature of the conversation. Previously, all the deprogrammers were focused on Ken,
with occasional “lapses” into smaller, concurrent and independent conversations. Now, one
or two people usually talked with Ken while other people talked among themselves, with
occasional “lapses” into the prior “Ken-focused” mode. As the speakers split off into
separate dyads and triads, the talk more closely resembled casual or .normal” conversation
(Allen &Guy, 1974).
I busied myself with helping prepare food, and serving. Curt asked Ken about the last non-
Krishna book he mad. it turned out that Ken had not read a non-Krishna book in years. Ken
talked about how he felt guilty when he (often) thought about non-ISKCON material With
Brian, they discussed how the Moonist indoctrination proms (with the Divine Principle) never
left any time to check references to the Bible. In cults, logic is reversed. The normal
process of logic is to gather information and then to come to a conclusion. [In cults] what
happens is [they coerce you to] come to a conclusion first, and then, if you have the time,
you can look up the information that will back up that conclusion.” Meanwhile, Moonist
doctrine distorts history, and chanting and prayer is used to stop any doubts. Ken noted
that in ISKCON, authorities give themselves the authority to appoint themselves the
authority [i.e., as Sandy put it, “if you don't believe me, just ask me”].
Ken, Greg, and Curt decided to eat poolside. As I walked past the den where Brian was
sitting, he asked if I wanted his thoughts on the process of deprogramming. I agreed
readily. In a few minutes, Curt came in and, overhearing Brian's conversation, decided to
and materials. Some of these thoughts were not new while a member, Ken had suppressed
them. Greg related that he had suppressed similar thoughts when he was in ISKCON. Ken
then mentioned that he had some dreams last night. Curt, noting the import Ken appeared
to be assigning to his dreams, began to warn against interpreting dreams as though they
were messages from the spiritual world telling him to go back to ISKCON. A general
discussion of the interpretation of dreams ensued. In the background, Ken's mother began
whisking eggs (to make more scrambled eggs), and I went into the kitchen to see if I could
help. As I took over some of the food preparation, Risa began to clean pots and pans. She
listened to her son, yet her activity level made it clear that she could not devote undivided
attention to him. She later told me that she had considerable difficulty listening to ISKCON
philosophy, even when it was criticized it upset her too much.
The conversation remained focused on cult issues. Brian came downstairs, and began
comparing ISKCON doctrine with Moonist doctrine. I interrupted the conversation to ask if
Ken would object to some of the deprogrammers eating bacon in front of him. Ken replied
that it would not bother him, despite the fact that “bacon is full of chemicals.”
The conversation became focused on Ken‟s pre-cult past, with Greg and Ken comparing high
school memories, and led naturally to a discussion of how they got involved in ISKCON, and
their family backgrounds. Greg noted that their “high schools were rivals...” The talk here
was casual, and took place in the kitchen, with people drifting in and out of the conversation
with Ken. Curt noted the anti-Krishna lyrics in “I Am the Walrus.” Greg then led several
people into spontaneously singing this song. Curt broke in and asked who wanted to eat
eggs. Most of the ongoing conversation with Ken was between Ken and Greg. Curt did most
of the talking with Ken's mother, about the cooking. The spontaneous singing of the Beatles
song led Ken into a reverie as he related some of the fun he had in ISKCON, when he was
allowed to sing and dance. Sandy subtly redirected Ken's yearnings, by asking him about
his taste in music prior to ISKCON. Ken liked folk and classical rock (“like Judy Collins,
Renaissance”), and the Grateful Dead. Greg talked about some of the great music festivals
and concerts of the early and mid Seventies. They also discussed the spiritual influences in
some rock groups (e.g., Mahavishnu Orchestra). Ken's mother drifted in and out of the
conversation as she began to serve brunch. As everyone was seated, the talk grew more
orderly and more clearly focused again on Ken. At this point, I noticed a distinct difference
in the nature of the conversation. Previously, all the deprogrammers were focused on Ken,
with occasional “lapses” into smaller, concurrent and independent conversations. Now, one
or two people usually talked with Ken while other people talked among themselves, with
occasional “lapses” into the prior “Ken-focused” mode. As the speakers split off into
separate dyads and triads, the talk more closely resembled casual or .normal” conversation
(Allen &Guy, 1974).
I busied myself with helping prepare food, and serving. Curt asked Ken about the last non-
Krishna book he mad. it turned out that Ken had not read a non-Krishna book in years. Ken
talked about how he felt guilty when he (often) thought about non-ISKCON material With
Brian, they discussed how the Moonist indoctrination proms (with the Divine Principle) never
left any time to check references to the Bible. In cults, logic is reversed. The normal
process of logic is to gather information and then to come to a conclusion. [In cults] what
happens is [they coerce you to] come to a conclusion first, and then, if you have the time,
you can look up the information that will back up that conclusion.” Meanwhile, Moonist
doctrine distorts history, and chanting and prayer is used to stop any doubts. Ken noted
that in ISKCON, authorities give themselves the authority to appoint themselves the
authority [i.e., as Sandy put it, “if you don't believe me, just ask me”].
Ken, Greg, and Curt decided to eat poolside. As I walked past the den where Brian was
sitting, he asked if I wanted his thoughts on the process of deprogramming. I agreed
readily. In a few minutes, Curt came in and, overhearing Brian's conversation, decided to
