Cultic Studies Journal, Vol. 6, No. 2, 1989, Page 53
intense affect might cause a resurgence of his Krishna defense mechanism. They reassured
him, explaining wet dreams to him in a factual yet jolting way. “It [sperm] comes out of
your ears, eventually!” Spontaneous jokes related to masturbation and wet dreams
continued briefly, which did in fact seem to lift a considerable amount of tension. Ken noted
that when he did masturbate after 6 months, his ejaculate looked strange (“It [looked]
coagulated.”), just as ISKCON said it would. Sandy replied that it probably looked strange
because Ken felt so guilty. Ken agreed: “And also because it had been so long since I
released it.” Curt concurred: “Oh hell yeah, man, you're gonna blow out the side of a
building!” Lots of laughter followed, and still laughing a little, Ken answered Curt. “When I
finally did fall down [i.e., masturbated] after all that time, after all that build-up, it felt
pretty good!” Greg validated Ken's feeling: “you bet!” The need to use humor to circumvent
Ken's defenses was never so obvious as when, following the laughter, Ken suddenly became
embarrassed, commenting anxiously that “this is all down on tape.” The deprogrammers
seemed about to remind him they can shut off the tape when Ken noted, “It‟s all right, it‟s
all human.”
Second day: Evening
Challenge. The talk now became serious again, as Sandy reminded Ken that wet dreams
are “a natural bodily function.” Ken: “Yeah, it‟s instinct” Curt picked up the subtle,
underlying doctrinaire thinking: “No, not instinct, because [in ISKCONI that has a negative
connotation. It‟s a natural bodily function, which means to go against that is to go against
nature.” Brian challenged the ISKCON view that sex is only for procreation. Why are
humans not subject to “heat” cycles during ovulation, and why do sterile people still have a
sex drive? Curt, however, made a process comment- Did Ken realize that even when
expressing his doubts and conflicts, he tended to express himself using Krishna terminology
and concepts? Ken replied defensively, that he was doing this to question it [the
philosophy]. Curt did not accept this explanation on face value, however. He then pushed
the limits of Ken's tolerance for anti-ISKCON statements by making his strongest statement
of distaste yet “If that‟s spirituality, then God help me, I hope I never attain it.” He further
challenged Ken. “How has ISKCON benefited mankind?” Curt confronted Ken on the value of
ISKCON's book distributions, and then attacked the food distribution program (i.e., free
feasts at temples) “which are for public relations purposes” only. Displaying an ISKCON
graph depicting how fund-raising money is used, Curt attacked each line item one by one:
vocational training (“There is none”), drug rehabilitation (“There are no drug rehab
centers”), 65% of the money to book distribution, etc. “Where is the money that was used
to build the Palace of Gold ...there is nothing here [that indicates] how much is invested in
real estate, or businesses [restaurants] ...” Curt then read a number of articles and internal
memoranda [confidential material distributed only to temple presidents] that indicated the
food distribution and other programs are used for “PR programs.” Ken was attentive, and he
did not let the issues implied by Curt's possession of secret memoranda slip by him: how
was this confidential material obtained? (It was taken by former devotees.) Curt returned to
the memoranda, which described how ISKCON distributed free food to the needy in Bengal.
Following this widely publicized initial demonstration of charity (which did not cost ISKCON a
cent as all the food had been donated to ISKCON to begin with), the Krishnas received
thousands of dollars in donations to continue the food distribution, but this money was kept
instead. Curt: “So ISKCON made money on the deal!” Ken seemed to agree with Curt‟s
criticism, and he reported similar incidents in which ISKCON used good public relations to
cover up deceptions.
At this point, the deprogrammers returned to John's tape and to the story of Jayatirtha. The
tape was constantly interrupted. Ken was at this point relating a lot of his experiences, and
the deprogramming seemed to be going fast. The bulk of John's tape was devoted to how
long the gurus knew about Jayatirtha's corruption, yet refused to remove him because of his
intense affect might cause a resurgence of his Krishna defense mechanism. They reassured
him, explaining wet dreams to him in a factual yet jolting way. “It [sperm] comes out of
your ears, eventually!” Spontaneous jokes related to masturbation and wet dreams
continued briefly, which did in fact seem to lift a considerable amount of tension. Ken noted
that when he did masturbate after 6 months, his ejaculate looked strange (“It [looked]
coagulated.”), just as ISKCON said it would. Sandy replied that it probably looked strange
because Ken felt so guilty. Ken agreed: “And also because it had been so long since I
released it.” Curt concurred: “Oh hell yeah, man, you're gonna blow out the side of a
building!” Lots of laughter followed, and still laughing a little, Ken answered Curt. “When I
finally did fall down [i.e., masturbated] after all that time, after all that build-up, it felt
pretty good!” Greg validated Ken's feeling: “you bet!” The need to use humor to circumvent
Ken's defenses was never so obvious as when, following the laughter, Ken suddenly became
embarrassed, commenting anxiously that “this is all down on tape.” The deprogrammers
seemed about to remind him they can shut off the tape when Ken noted, “It‟s all right, it‟s
all human.”
Second day: Evening
Challenge. The talk now became serious again, as Sandy reminded Ken that wet dreams
are “a natural bodily function.” Ken: “Yeah, it‟s instinct” Curt picked up the subtle,
underlying doctrinaire thinking: “No, not instinct, because [in ISKCONI that has a negative
connotation. It‟s a natural bodily function, which means to go against that is to go against
nature.” Brian challenged the ISKCON view that sex is only for procreation. Why are
humans not subject to “heat” cycles during ovulation, and why do sterile people still have a
sex drive? Curt, however, made a process comment- Did Ken realize that even when
expressing his doubts and conflicts, he tended to express himself using Krishna terminology
and concepts? Ken replied defensively, that he was doing this to question it [the
philosophy]. Curt did not accept this explanation on face value, however. He then pushed
the limits of Ken's tolerance for anti-ISKCON statements by making his strongest statement
of distaste yet “If that‟s spirituality, then God help me, I hope I never attain it.” He further
challenged Ken. “How has ISKCON benefited mankind?” Curt confronted Ken on the value of
ISKCON's book distributions, and then attacked the food distribution program (i.e., free
feasts at temples) “which are for public relations purposes” only. Displaying an ISKCON
graph depicting how fund-raising money is used, Curt attacked each line item one by one:
vocational training (“There is none”), drug rehabilitation (“There are no drug rehab
centers”), 65% of the money to book distribution, etc. “Where is the money that was used
to build the Palace of Gold ...there is nothing here [that indicates] how much is invested in
real estate, or businesses [restaurants] ...” Curt then read a number of articles and internal
memoranda [confidential material distributed only to temple presidents] that indicated the
food distribution and other programs are used for “PR programs.” Ken was attentive, and he
did not let the issues implied by Curt's possession of secret memoranda slip by him: how
was this confidential material obtained? (It was taken by former devotees.) Curt returned to
the memoranda, which described how ISKCON distributed free food to the needy in Bengal.
Following this widely publicized initial demonstration of charity (which did not cost ISKCON a
cent as all the food had been donated to ISKCON to begin with), the Krishnas received
thousands of dollars in donations to continue the food distribution, but this money was kept
instead. Curt: “So ISKCON made money on the deal!” Ken seemed to agree with Curt‟s
criticism, and he reported similar incidents in which ISKCON used good public relations to
cover up deceptions.
At this point, the deprogrammers returned to John's tape and to the story of Jayatirtha. The
tape was constantly interrupted. Ken was at this point relating a lot of his experiences, and
the deprogramming seemed to be going fast. The bulk of John's tape was devoted to how
long the gurus knew about Jayatirtha's corruption, yet refused to remove him because of his
