Cultic Studies Journal, Vol. 6, No. 2, 1989, Page 33
usually with one main meat dish, bread(s), several varieties of vegetables and fruits, and
several desserts.
Maintaining this much food on hand was no simple task. In the washroom bags of groceries
were placed on the floor, on the dishwasher, on a couch, or whatever else was handy. In
the refrigerator them the team kept milk, juice, and usually one or two six-packs of beer.
There was usually a bag or two of purely “junk” food. pretzels mostly, but Twinkies, cookies,
Devil Dogs (box-size), and other cake goods as well. This refrigerator seemed “reserved” for
the team alone. The kitchen refrigerator was where the “serious” food and the Epstein
family's groceries were kept. Thus, breakfast usually came out of both refrigerators (since
various team members woke and ate at various times, while the Epsteins came and went
separately in general), while dinners usually cane out of the kitchen refrigerator. Risa and
Ellen seemed to do most of the grocery shopping. Through occasional trips to convenience
stores, Curt or Sandy resupplied the “junk” food, minor provisions (e.g., juice or milk),
cigarettes, and beer.
First Day: Evening
Gaining access. That first night, Risa, Ellen and Daniel Epstein and I had a light dinner
consisting of salad, bread, and cheese the deprogrammers and security men came down
later for some plates of food which they then brought back upstairs. I still remained
downstairs. Daniel and I continued to talk until his father was ready to take him to the
airport. At about 7:00 p.m., Greg Stem arrived, and, after politely stating that he had
already eaten dinner, went right upstairs. I went upstairs with extra tapes, to check on the
status of the audiotaping. The door to Ken's room was slightly ajar, so I peeked in to see
what he looked like. Ken was thin and serious-looking, and he was wearing a cap that
concealed his nearly clean-shaven head and his sika (the ponytail-like lock of hair on the
back of a male devotee's head that is symbolic of being initiated into the Krishnas). I still
felt somewhat tense, and very much the “outsider.” As for Ken, I was told that he still had
not eaten anything since the morning.
What I saw on my left was a small, square room. Ken was seated on the bed, on my left,
toward the end. Curt, Greg, and Sandy were also there. Greg was seated on the floor near a
plant stand, with his back leaned against the wall. Curt also sat on the floor, somewhat
close to the bed while Sandy sat on the floor, against the left wall, perpendicular to Greg.
Brian sat outside the room, reading a book, near the stairway to the ground floor. Curt did
not seem to be taping yet. As I waited to be invited to enter Ken's room, I continued to
listen to the ongoing conversation. I could discern most of what was being said. Curt was
talking. He had a looseleaf book open to the middle, and he was reading from an enclosed
article to Ken. A copy of the Bhagavad Gita, the Hindu/Krishna holy book, was also opened
up, on the floor. Pages in the looseleaf and the “Gita” were outlined in pen and in yellow
highlighter. Ken seemed to be interacting in a cooperative and even pleasant, although
distant manner. He gently asked questions, clearly debating with Curt. Ken did not seem to
be relating Curt‟s information to his own experience he only used third person pronouns.
But he continued to question Curt, primarily about the validity of the latter's sources of
information. Ken soon became somewhat louder and more confrontational. Curt tried to
answer most of Ken's questions, avoiding some of the more detailed questions, such as
where commas appeared in a quote. Curt seemed very patient with these questions,
approaching impatience only once, when he remarked to Ken that “you're so caught up in
this...” As Curt continued to talk, Ken seemed to be taken off-guard by the sheer quantity
and critical nature of information Curt was relaying. Curt was pointing out that that Krishnas
claim that they are purer than other religions, yet they are involved in a number of illegal
activities, such as gun-running and drug smuggling Ken seemed to be listening, but he
continued to answer in the third person with a low voice but fast pace: “Well, Krishna
says...” Later, Curt would explain to me that this was his first somewhat mild, confrontation.
usually with one main meat dish, bread(s), several varieties of vegetables and fruits, and
several desserts.
Maintaining this much food on hand was no simple task. In the washroom bags of groceries
were placed on the floor, on the dishwasher, on a couch, or whatever else was handy. In
the refrigerator them the team kept milk, juice, and usually one or two six-packs of beer.
There was usually a bag or two of purely “junk” food. pretzels mostly, but Twinkies, cookies,
Devil Dogs (box-size), and other cake goods as well. This refrigerator seemed “reserved” for
the team alone. The kitchen refrigerator was where the “serious” food and the Epstein
family's groceries were kept. Thus, breakfast usually came out of both refrigerators (since
various team members woke and ate at various times, while the Epsteins came and went
separately in general), while dinners usually cane out of the kitchen refrigerator. Risa and
Ellen seemed to do most of the grocery shopping. Through occasional trips to convenience
stores, Curt or Sandy resupplied the “junk” food, minor provisions (e.g., juice or milk),
cigarettes, and beer.
First Day: Evening
Gaining access. That first night, Risa, Ellen and Daniel Epstein and I had a light dinner
consisting of salad, bread, and cheese the deprogrammers and security men came down
later for some plates of food which they then brought back upstairs. I still remained
downstairs. Daniel and I continued to talk until his father was ready to take him to the
airport. At about 7:00 p.m., Greg Stem arrived, and, after politely stating that he had
already eaten dinner, went right upstairs. I went upstairs with extra tapes, to check on the
status of the audiotaping. The door to Ken's room was slightly ajar, so I peeked in to see
what he looked like. Ken was thin and serious-looking, and he was wearing a cap that
concealed his nearly clean-shaven head and his sika (the ponytail-like lock of hair on the
back of a male devotee's head that is symbolic of being initiated into the Krishnas). I still
felt somewhat tense, and very much the “outsider.” As for Ken, I was told that he still had
not eaten anything since the morning.
What I saw on my left was a small, square room. Ken was seated on the bed, on my left,
toward the end. Curt, Greg, and Sandy were also there. Greg was seated on the floor near a
plant stand, with his back leaned against the wall. Curt also sat on the floor, somewhat
close to the bed while Sandy sat on the floor, against the left wall, perpendicular to Greg.
Brian sat outside the room, reading a book, near the stairway to the ground floor. Curt did
not seem to be taping yet. As I waited to be invited to enter Ken's room, I continued to
listen to the ongoing conversation. I could discern most of what was being said. Curt was
talking. He had a looseleaf book open to the middle, and he was reading from an enclosed
article to Ken. A copy of the Bhagavad Gita, the Hindu/Krishna holy book, was also opened
up, on the floor. Pages in the looseleaf and the “Gita” were outlined in pen and in yellow
highlighter. Ken seemed to be interacting in a cooperative and even pleasant, although
distant manner. He gently asked questions, clearly debating with Curt. Ken did not seem to
be relating Curt‟s information to his own experience he only used third person pronouns.
But he continued to question Curt, primarily about the validity of the latter's sources of
information. Ken soon became somewhat louder and more confrontational. Curt tried to
answer most of Ken's questions, avoiding some of the more detailed questions, such as
where commas appeared in a quote. Curt seemed very patient with these questions,
approaching impatience only once, when he remarked to Ken that “you're so caught up in
this...” As Curt continued to talk, Ken seemed to be taken off-guard by the sheer quantity
and critical nature of information Curt was relaying. Curt was pointing out that that Krishnas
claim that they are purer than other religions, yet they are involved in a number of illegal
activities, such as gun-running and drug smuggling Ken seemed to be listening, but he
continued to answer in the third person with a low voice but fast pace: “Well, Krishna
says...” Later, Curt would explain to me that this was his first somewhat mild, confrontation.
