Cultic Studies Journal, Vol. 6, No. 2, 1989, Page 32
deprogramming by eating meat or having sex with a woman vegetarianism and celibacy
are of paramount importance to the Krishnas. He then reminded his mother of his planned
missionary trip to Puerto Rico and demanded to be taken to the airport so he could leave
right away.
As they approached the Epsteins' house, Ken was told that he was being taken to a friend of
his mother, located in a Philadelphia suburb. The destination surprised him. He expected to
be taken to Ohio, erroneously believing that all deprogrammings were done at an Ohio
rehab. Curt and Sandy explained that the deprogramming would give him the opportunity to
study what the Krishnas “were really all about” without interference from the Krishnas. He
could examine documents that might have been withheld from him, and he could re-
evaluate the meaning of his belief system and whether or not the Krishnas really practiced
what they preached. There would be opportunities to share experiences with former
Krishnas as well as with former members of other cults. They would take a close look at
ISKCON‟s doctrine as well as at other material, and they would watch some videotape: and
listen to some audiotapes. Ken would be able to sleep and eat when and as much as he
wanted. When he asked how long the deprogramming would last, Ken was told that if, after
a week, he was still convinced that ISKCON was the true religion, he could go back to his
Krishna temple. (This is in sharp variance with other reports of what is said at the early
phase of -.deprogramming. Other deprogrammers have been quoted as saying “it will take
as long as it takes.”) Sandy later explained to me that by being told what to expect, and
then actually having these expectations fulfilled, the cultist discovers that the
deprogrammers can be trusted to keep their word. Curt echoed these statements by noting
that he is as honest as possible with his clients. Lying or providing false expectations can
“blow the whole thing,” he stated.
Beginnings. I asked about the current status of the deprogramming, and Curt told me that
Ken was talking, which he interpreted as a good sign. He stated that Ken had agreed to stay
and listen to the deprogrammers for at least the day, which seemed to imply that Ken was
now a voluntary participant in the deprogramming. Curt noted that Ken was freely
expressing a few “pockets” of compartmentalized doubts about ISKCON, but until Curt knew
Ken better, it would be difficult to tell if these doubts were genuine or if they were just
attempts to “fake it” and obtain an early release. Noting that he had not been successfully
“fooled” in his last 50 cases, Curt felt confident “I just let them go on, and if they're faking,
they eventually trip over their own lies.”
When I asked, Curt informed me that he did not think it would be a good idea for me to go
upstairs yet Ken might feel overwhelmed. He agreed, however, to take my tape recorder
upstairs and tape for me. I set the recorder up, and Curt went upstairs.
At this point, Brian, who had been sitting security outside the bedroom being used as the
main deprogramming room (hereafter referred to as (“Ken's room”), came down. We had
just met a few days ago, at the Northeast regional CFF conference. Since I did not know
that he was going to be working on this case, I was pleasantly surprised to see him. After
saying hello and explaining that he was just working security, Brian expressed his opinion
that, at this point, Ken might be trying to “con” the deprogrammers. Brian then went back
upstairs, to his “post.”
As I awaited permission to meet Ken, I talked with Daniel Epstein about his experiences in
ISKCON. Risa and Ellen were busy preparing a large dinner. Preparing food was to be a
central activity for the two, especially Risa. She told me later that it was the only way she
could maintain control of her anxiety in the situation. To feed the Epstein family (or parts of
it, anyway-- I rarely saw the family all together), the deprogrammers, the security team,
and any visitors, the meals were large, and they took around two hours to prepare, with
another hour to two hours for cleaning up. A wide variety of food was typically served,
deprogramming by eating meat or having sex with a woman vegetarianism and celibacy
are of paramount importance to the Krishnas. He then reminded his mother of his planned
missionary trip to Puerto Rico and demanded to be taken to the airport so he could leave
right away.
As they approached the Epsteins' house, Ken was told that he was being taken to a friend of
his mother, located in a Philadelphia suburb. The destination surprised him. He expected to
be taken to Ohio, erroneously believing that all deprogrammings were done at an Ohio
rehab. Curt and Sandy explained that the deprogramming would give him the opportunity to
study what the Krishnas “were really all about” without interference from the Krishnas. He
could examine documents that might have been withheld from him, and he could re-
evaluate the meaning of his belief system and whether or not the Krishnas really practiced
what they preached. There would be opportunities to share experiences with former
Krishnas as well as with former members of other cults. They would take a close look at
ISKCON‟s doctrine as well as at other material, and they would watch some videotape: and
listen to some audiotapes. Ken would be able to sleep and eat when and as much as he
wanted. When he asked how long the deprogramming would last, Ken was told that if, after
a week, he was still convinced that ISKCON was the true religion, he could go back to his
Krishna temple. (This is in sharp variance with other reports of what is said at the early
phase of -.deprogramming. Other deprogrammers have been quoted as saying “it will take
as long as it takes.”) Sandy later explained to me that by being told what to expect, and
then actually having these expectations fulfilled, the cultist discovers that the
deprogrammers can be trusted to keep their word. Curt echoed these statements by noting
that he is as honest as possible with his clients. Lying or providing false expectations can
“blow the whole thing,” he stated.
Beginnings. I asked about the current status of the deprogramming, and Curt told me that
Ken was talking, which he interpreted as a good sign. He stated that Ken had agreed to stay
and listen to the deprogrammers for at least the day, which seemed to imply that Ken was
now a voluntary participant in the deprogramming. Curt noted that Ken was freely
expressing a few “pockets” of compartmentalized doubts about ISKCON, but until Curt knew
Ken better, it would be difficult to tell if these doubts were genuine or if they were just
attempts to “fake it” and obtain an early release. Noting that he had not been successfully
“fooled” in his last 50 cases, Curt felt confident “I just let them go on, and if they're faking,
they eventually trip over their own lies.”
When I asked, Curt informed me that he did not think it would be a good idea for me to go
upstairs yet Ken might feel overwhelmed. He agreed, however, to take my tape recorder
upstairs and tape for me. I set the recorder up, and Curt went upstairs.
At this point, Brian, who had been sitting security outside the bedroom being used as the
main deprogramming room (hereafter referred to as (“Ken's room”), came down. We had
just met a few days ago, at the Northeast regional CFF conference. Since I did not know
that he was going to be working on this case, I was pleasantly surprised to see him. After
saying hello and explaining that he was just working security, Brian expressed his opinion
that, at this point, Ken might be trying to “con” the deprogrammers. Brian then went back
upstairs, to his “post.”
As I awaited permission to meet Ken, I talked with Daniel Epstein about his experiences in
ISKCON. Risa and Ellen were busy preparing a large dinner. Preparing food was to be a
central activity for the two, especially Risa. She told me later that it was the only way she
could maintain control of her anxiety in the situation. To feed the Epstein family (or parts of
it, anyway-- I rarely saw the family all together), the deprogrammers, the security team,
and any visitors, the meals were large, and they took around two hours to prepare, with
another hour to two hours for cleaning up. A wide variety of food was typically served,
