Cultic Studies Journal, Vol. 6, No. 2, 1989, Page 47
ISKCON's technology of mind control, and would at the least feed into any ongoing guilt and
ambivalence Ken might have about leaving the group. For the deprogramming to be a
success, Ken would have to give up chanting as well as his devotee status.
Ken turned to revealing in greater detail how he first became a devotee. Ken now seemed
to be talking more than half of the time. He talked of his recruitment in terms of
entrapment. “At this point, the string was already knotted and I was being pulled toward
the temple.” Sandy nodded as he heard these familiar words. That‟s what we often hear “I
never decided to join, I just wound up in it.” Ken: “Yeah, just like I never planned to go to
Boston (to be initiated].” Ken's attention shifted again. He asked Brian about what ISKCON
told him regarding the sexual education of children in Sweden. Ken: “Is it true children are
taught how to have sex?” This may have been one of the first times that Ken spontaneously
asked a deprogrammer to validate or invalidate information about something not directly
related to ISKCON in order to test it against reality. Toward noon, Ken seemed to be talking
about 60 to 70% of the time.
The Second Day: Afternoon
At around 12:00 noon, Curt entered Ken's room for the first time this second day. Again,
there were preliminary greetings and questions about Ken's needs: How is Ken feeling, is he
hungry (stilll “no”), is there anything he needs to feel more comfortable?
At this point the Epsteins' neighbor began to mow the lawn, which, I found out later, would
make it completely impossible to understand large segments of the tapes over the next 2
hours. During this time, Greg, Curt, Brian, and Ken went over some very fine points in the
Gita they compared some of the Gita's claims to known historical fact and common sense.
Curt pointed out that Lord Krishna supposedly had the power to destroy entire cities with a
thought, and elsewhere the Gita states that to engage in such destruction would be a form
of saving souls. Yet if Krishna had both the power and the justification for ruling the world,
why did he in fact not rule the world? Something, therefore must be false: Either the Gita is
mistaken in claiming that destruction in the name of saving souls is justified, or Krishna did
not really have the power the Gita claims he had. Either way, the Gita had less than the
“complete” truth.
The idea of judging a religion “by its fruits” is a common deprogramming tactic, borrowed
liberally from a Biblical admonition. The discussion became concerned with the living
conditions in India. Ken initiated this train of thought by comparing ISKCON theology to
Buddhism and other -religions. Curt then asked him about the “fruits” of the cultures in
which these religions flourish, especially India, which is quite impoverished. Ken countered
by arguing that Indians are more satisfied spiritually. How can this statement be proven (or
disproven)? Curt did not rise to this challenge yet, but instead began discussing the
revisionist-historical belief that the climate of the area may have been responsible for the
rise of the passive Hindu and Buddhist religions, which may have in turn fed into these
cultures' lack of progress. Curt, “Look at the end result of these religions. “India is a good
example of what we'd have to look forward to” if ISKCON took over. Curt‟s argument
seemed centered around the following: according to the Krishnas, India is the most
spiritually advanced country in the world (universe). The Krishnas claim that spiritual purity
and advancement will result in physical health. Yet, as Curt noted, a high degree of
spirituality certainly does not seem to be correlated with healthy bodies and a long life in
India, which has one of the highest infant mortality rates and shortest life expectancies in
the world. ISKCON, of course, says that chanting Hare Krishna and being spiritual will
assure physical health. Curt‟s reliance on logical thinking was clearly in evidence. Ken,
however, continued to defend and support India and Hinduism in general.
ISKCON's technology of mind control, and would at the least feed into any ongoing guilt and
ambivalence Ken might have about leaving the group. For the deprogramming to be a
success, Ken would have to give up chanting as well as his devotee status.
Ken turned to revealing in greater detail how he first became a devotee. Ken now seemed
to be talking more than half of the time. He talked of his recruitment in terms of
entrapment. “At this point, the string was already knotted and I was being pulled toward
the temple.” Sandy nodded as he heard these familiar words. That‟s what we often hear “I
never decided to join, I just wound up in it.” Ken: “Yeah, just like I never planned to go to
Boston (to be initiated].” Ken's attention shifted again. He asked Brian about what ISKCON
told him regarding the sexual education of children in Sweden. Ken: “Is it true children are
taught how to have sex?” This may have been one of the first times that Ken spontaneously
asked a deprogrammer to validate or invalidate information about something not directly
related to ISKCON in order to test it against reality. Toward noon, Ken seemed to be talking
about 60 to 70% of the time.
The Second Day: Afternoon
At around 12:00 noon, Curt entered Ken's room for the first time this second day. Again,
there were preliminary greetings and questions about Ken's needs: How is Ken feeling, is he
hungry (stilll “no”), is there anything he needs to feel more comfortable?
At this point the Epsteins' neighbor began to mow the lawn, which, I found out later, would
make it completely impossible to understand large segments of the tapes over the next 2
hours. During this time, Greg, Curt, Brian, and Ken went over some very fine points in the
Gita they compared some of the Gita's claims to known historical fact and common sense.
Curt pointed out that Lord Krishna supposedly had the power to destroy entire cities with a
thought, and elsewhere the Gita states that to engage in such destruction would be a form
of saving souls. Yet if Krishna had both the power and the justification for ruling the world,
why did he in fact not rule the world? Something, therefore must be false: Either the Gita is
mistaken in claiming that destruction in the name of saving souls is justified, or Krishna did
not really have the power the Gita claims he had. Either way, the Gita had less than the
“complete” truth.
The idea of judging a religion “by its fruits” is a common deprogramming tactic, borrowed
liberally from a Biblical admonition. The discussion became concerned with the living
conditions in India. Ken initiated this train of thought by comparing ISKCON theology to
Buddhism and other -religions. Curt then asked him about the “fruits” of the cultures in
which these religions flourish, especially India, which is quite impoverished. Ken countered
by arguing that Indians are more satisfied spiritually. How can this statement be proven (or
disproven)? Curt did not rise to this challenge yet, but instead began discussing the
revisionist-historical belief that the climate of the area may have been responsible for the
rise of the passive Hindu and Buddhist religions, which may have in turn fed into these
cultures' lack of progress. Curt, “Look at the end result of these religions. “India is a good
example of what we'd have to look forward to” if ISKCON took over. Curt‟s argument
seemed centered around the following: according to the Krishnas, India is the most
spiritually advanced country in the world (universe). The Krishnas claim that spiritual purity
and advancement will result in physical health. Yet, as Curt noted, a high degree of
spirituality certainly does not seem to be correlated with healthy bodies and a long life in
India, which has one of the highest infant mortality rates and shortest life expectancies in
the world. ISKCON, of course, says that chanting Hare Krishna and being spiritual will
assure physical health. Curt‟s reliance on logical thinking was clearly in evidence. Ken,
however, continued to defend and support India and Hinduism in general.
