Cultic Studies Journal, Vol. 6, No. 2, 1989, Page 36
instruct disciples, then what does this say about Prabhupada, the “Perfect Master? This line
of reasoning seemed to get Ken even more upset. “Was Prabhupada personally present
when this was stated?” Curt and Sandy responded with an “orienting” statement “Listen!
Listen closely!” [Sandy): “Listen to what he [Curt and/or Prabhupada] says!” When Ken
finally appeared to back down, Curt pushed further by making a process comment. “Did you
see what you just did? ...Because you [heard what I said] as a potentially threatening
statement that indicated some blind obedience...you didn't deal with the statement that was
being made. You tried to undermine the validity of the individual making it.”
The demand to think. Curt's utilization of a logical argumentative approach (characterized
primarily by questioning and giving information) to ISKCON doctrine continued: he next
noted that one version of the Gita claims there are 32 gurus, while another says 33. How
can both be true? It there is one flaw, then it is not perfection. As Ken seemed to consider
this reasoning anxiously, Curt began to reassure him that nothing bad will happen to him
for questioning ISKCON doctrine. “I don't think you will [get punished] because I know a
number of people who have left.”
Mother. At 11: 15, Ken requested time to talk to his mother. Curt went out again to get
Risa, and the two returned. Risa entered the room, and sat on the bed, about 1-1/2 feet to
Ken's left. As they talked, we all filed out of the room to afford them some privacy. Curt and
Greg commented that they were very pleased that Ken and Risa were talking this was a
highly positive sign. Curt took out my recorder when Risa entered the room and I felt it
would be awkward to request otherwise. Ken and Risa's conversation began at 11:28.
Although I was not privy to their conversation, I later found out that Ken was sharing some
doubts with his mother. He said he wasn‟t sure whether or not he would go to Puerto Rico
now (he was on his way there prior to the pickup, on Krishna business). He stated that he
might still go, but he wasn't sure. Later, Curt explained that when the “one week time
frame was given. the additional two to four weeks at Rehab were deliberately left out so as
“not to overwhelm the guy.” Thus, Ken was still considering going to Puerto Rico “next
week, when this is over.” This was another good sign according to Curt. “He's beginning to
accept that this will take some time.” Ken explained that he was angry at her at first (during
the pick-up), that he wanted to punch her, but that then he began to realize “this wasn't so
bad.” Risa listened mostly, although when he made the statements about being angry and
wanting to punch her, she hugged him. When she spoke, it was generally so quietly that I
could not catch any of what she was saying .She appeared to be explaining that she only
did this because she loved him. Ken told her than he stopped being angry, however, once
he began to realize that “this wasn't so bad.” After talking to his mother, Ken, Curt and
Greg returned to Ken's room (I remained just outside the room) and began to discuss the
origins of Indian culture with Brian, who had waited in the room while Ken and Risa were
standing outside it, talking. Brian began to point out that linguistic research has shown that
Latin and Sanskrit have their roots in a third common language, and that Sanskrit did not
give birth to Latin as is claimed by Prabhupada.
The First Day: Late Evening
Curt's analysis. At this point, Greg's wife, Bobbi Stern, entered the mom. She introduced
herself very briefly and after Ken said hello, she sat down. It was now about 12:15 am. Ken
was asked if he was tired and wanted to call it quits for the night. He said he was tired, but
that he wanted to continue. Greg began to ask Ken some more about his experiences, while
relating some more of his own. Curt stepped out. I was still seated by the steps just outside
the open door of Ken's room. Curt began to give me his impressions of what was going on
at this point. He stated that Ken didn't want to go to sleep because “he's all fired up” and
“he wants to express himself … he wants to talk to somebody. He's starting to understand
where we're coming from,” and may even be identifying a little with his adversaries. At this
point, Curt said, Ken wants a free forum to express doubts that have been suppressed, and
instruct disciples, then what does this say about Prabhupada, the “Perfect Master? This line
of reasoning seemed to get Ken even more upset. “Was Prabhupada personally present
when this was stated?” Curt and Sandy responded with an “orienting” statement “Listen!
Listen closely!” [Sandy): “Listen to what he [Curt and/or Prabhupada] says!” When Ken
finally appeared to back down, Curt pushed further by making a process comment. “Did you
see what you just did? ...Because you [heard what I said] as a potentially threatening
statement that indicated some blind obedience...you didn't deal with the statement that was
being made. You tried to undermine the validity of the individual making it.”
The demand to think. Curt's utilization of a logical argumentative approach (characterized
primarily by questioning and giving information) to ISKCON doctrine continued: he next
noted that one version of the Gita claims there are 32 gurus, while another says 33. How
can both be true? It there is one flaw, then it is not perfection. As Ken seemed to consider
this reasoning anxiously, Curt began to reassure him that nothing bad will happen to him
for questioning ISKCON doctrine. “I don't think you will [get punished] because I know a
number of people who have left.”
Mother. At 11: 15, Ken requested time to talk to his mother. Curt went out again to get
Risa, and the two returned. Risa entered the room, and sat on the bed, about 1-1/2 feet to
Ken's left. As they talked, we all filed out of the room to afford them some privacy. Curt and
Greg commented that they were very pleased that Ken and Risa were talking this was a
highly positive sign. Curt took out my recorder when Risa entered the room and I felt it
would be awkward to request otherwise. Ken and Risa's conversation began at 11:28.
Although I was not privy to their conversation, I later found out that Ken was sharing some
doubts with his mother. He said he wasn‟t sure whether or not he would go to Puerto Rico
now (he was on his way there prior to the pickup, on Krishna business). He stated that he
might still go, but he wasn't sure. Later, Curt explained that when the “one week time
frame was given. the additional two to four weeks at Rehab were deliberately left out so as
“not to overwhelm the guy.” Thus, Ken was still considering going to Puerto Rico “next
week, when this is over.” This was another good sign according to Curt. “He's beginning to
accept that this will take some time.” Ken explained that he was angry at her at first (during
the pick-up), that he wanted to punch her, but that then he began to realize “this wasn't so
bad.” Risa listened mostly, although when he made the statements about being angry and
wanting to punch her, she hugged him. When she spoke, it was generally so quietly that I
could not catch any of what she was saying .She appeared to be explaining that she only
did this because she loved him. Ken told her than he stopped being angry, however, once
he began to realize that “this wasn't so bad.” After talking to his mother, Ken, Curt and
Greg returned to Ken's room (I remained just outside the room) and began to discuss the
origins of Indian culture with Brian, who had waited in the room while Ken and Risa were
standing outside it, talking. Brian began to point out that linguistic research has shown that
Latin and Sanskrit have their roots in a third common language, and that Sanskrit did not
give birth to Latin as is claimed by Prabhupada.
The First Day: Late Evening
Curt's analysis. At this point, Greg's wife, Bobbi Stern, entered the mom. She introduced
herself very briefly and after Ken said hello, she sat down. It was now about 12:15 am. Ken
was asked if he was tired and wanted to call it quits for the night. He said he was tired, but
that he wanted to continue. Greg began to ask Ken some more about his experiences, while
relating some more of his own. Curt stepped out. I was still seated by the steps just outside
the open door of Ken's room. Curt began to give me his impressions of what was going on
at this point. He stated that Ken didn't want to go to sleep because “he's all fired up” and
“he wants to express himself … he wants to talk to somebody. He's starting to understand
where we're coming from,” and may even be identifying a little with his adversaries. At this
point, Curt said, Ken wants a free forum to express doubts that have been suppressed, and
